CRM for church management

[satimis]

Hi folks,

I left this forum for sometimes. While I was searching around software for church management I came across some suggestion making use of CRM as start. However CRM is for commercial application. Church is NOT a commercial organisation. Comment and suggestion on SugarCRM as a start for church management would be appreciated. TIA

B.R.
satimis

[salesagility]

It depends on what you mean by "church management" ... what do you want to do?

[satimis]

It depends on what you mean by "church management" ... what do you want to do?

Hi,

My preliminary consideration;

A web hosting database program tracking members, their families, groups, pledges, payments, accounting, etc. serving the parish which have more than hundred churches. Each church serves 300~1000 congregation running 2~4 services in each Sunday, bigger church more member. Each church maintains its own server and bishop office controls all of them. This can be achieved by server virtualization. Each church maintains its VM (guest) and its own website. All servers are running the same basic program (OS). Each church is allowed adding additional package to satisfy its own need. Document saved on each server will be duplicated to the server of bishop office. Above is the preliminary requirement. Other additional packages such as bible verse, bible reading, hymn etc. can be added later.

B.R.
satimis

[andopes]

Hi satimis

SugarCRM is a wide frame work for web development.
Several enterprises had implemented specific system on SugarCRM, other than CRM itself.
So SugarCRM, with some customization, fits your needs.

Some considerations:
how to deal with software update on every Church system?

I would suggest you to focus all Church stuffs inside the same system and setup churchs as a Team record, the way you can restrict access to data related to churchs.

Best regards

[satimis]

SugarCRM is a wide frame work for web development.
Several enterprises had implemented specific system on SugarCRM, other than CRM itself.
So SugarCRM, with some customization, fits your needs.

Hi andopes,

Thanks for your advice.

I started my searching 3~4 weeks ago having obtained a collection of information. I already begin testing them. They are small package. I'm worrying if there is already a wheel I don't need to re-invent another wheel.

I tested SugarCRM before. It is a powerful CRM. It can be integrated with some other small packages to increase its power.

Some considerations:
how to deal with software update on every Church system?

That is a good question.

For upgrading OS running on VMs (guests) OpenVZ is an ideal virtualizer. Upgrading the host will automatically upgrade all guests. IIRC VServer, another virtaulizer, has the same function. Windows can't run on them. For Windows KVM/qemu and VirtualBox are ideal virtualizers. I have run all of them before. However in this case I won't run Windows. Therefore it is out of my consideration.

To upgrade SugarCRM on all guests I haven't had a solution immediate off my head. Another thought I may run SugarCRM similar to virtual hosting on Apache/web server. All churches can share the SugarCRM. I have discussed this solution in another forum sometimes ago. Unfortunately I haven't got time testing this setup. So I just need maintaining one server. The disadvantage is churches can't add their own packages for particular purpose.

I would suggest you to focus all Church stuffs inside the same system and setup churchs as a Team record, the way you can restrict access to data related to churchs.

Yes. Thanks.

At the beginning I would set up 1 or 2 servers for testing only. After success it is easy for me to clone dozens of gusts/servers for other churches. I haven't got a clue on duplicating files to Bishop's server. I think the easiest way will be creating image of each server at fixed time. Any suggestion? Thanks

Another problem laid before me is the public IP for each server. If there are 100 servers, rent 100 public IP ? I tested successfully before 20 mail servers sharing ONE public IP. All mail servers were running on guests of OpenVZ. The configuration is quite complicate. There are 2 approaches, 1) making use of MySQL for distribution according to domain and 2) running Perdition. Remote workstations can send/receive mails via their own servers. I have no idea whether SugarCRM can work in this way.


B.R.
satimis

[andopes]

At the beginning I would set up 1 or 2 servers for testing only. After success it is easy for me to clone dozens of gusts/servers for other churches. I haven't got a clue on duplicating files to Bishop's server. I think the easiest way will be creating image of each server at fixed time. Any suggestion?

I believe a good aproach is the rsync feature.

You have a big deal to figure out.

You can configure several systems in order to let Bishops customize their system according to their needs;
You can configure a single system and setup Churchs as Teams records, the way all Church´s data are stored under the same database.

The first one would be more interesting for Bishops, but you probably will face a huge maintenance issue, because enabling installing specific package on each system may introduce system specific issues which will affect the wide systems upgrade.

The second approach will not provide Bishop independence but it will give you full control of what is installed and the system upgrade.
You can provide Bishops a kind of partial customization through views and controller, where you can turn on or turn off packages according to current Church whose related records are been accessed.

Cheers

[satimis]

I believe a good aproach is the rsync feature.

You have a big deal to figure out.

You can configure several systems in order to let Bishops customize their system according to their needs;
You can configure a single system and setup Churchs as Teams records, the way all Church´s data are stored under the same database.

The first one would be more interesting for Bishops, but you probably will face a huge maintenance issue, because enabling installing specific package on each system may introduce system specific issues which will affect the wide systems upgrade.

The second approach will not provide Bishop independence but it will give you full control of what is installed and the system upgrade.
You can provide Bishops a kind of partial customization through views and controller, where you can turn on or turn off packages according to current Church whose related records are been accessed.

Hi André,

Thanks for your advice.

Bishop wouldn't interfere the daily operation of the churches in their parish. It is the responsibility of the vicar of each church. Neither Bishop is interested on the email exchange amongst the members. Bishop would be interested on the notice and announcement of each church, knowing the activity of each church. Therefore each notice/announcement should alert Bishop's attention or at least retaining an in-erasable record on Bishops' server for review in case of need. Any idea to make it automatically? Thanks

B.R.
satimis

[andopes]

Hi satimis

I believe an announcement and notice are activities, like Meetings and Tasks. So it is possible to create logic_hooks to send email notification to bishops regarding these activities. Also there are some sms solutions available on SugarForge, which would provide a real time notification.

Fell free to contact us if you would like to discuss your project.

Best regards

[satimis]

I believe an announcement and notice are activities, like Meetings and Tasks. So it is possible to create logic_hooks to send email notification to bishops regarding these activities. Also there are some sms solutions available on SugarForge, which would provide a real time notification.

Hi André,

Notice and announcement will use the notice board on church website as instrument for circulation. They will be posted there for a short period. Bishop won't have sufficient time to browse one hundred church websites daily. If they are circulated on email it will be simple just cc Bishop. Bishop can find a particular notice and/or announcement in case of need.

Fell free to contact us if you would like to discuss your project.

Yes, thanks. We are working on Open Source. Folks in this circle are helping each others without boundary and without reserve.

I haven't finalised whether to go "virtual hosting" way or "VM" (guests) way. The former will be easier for management on server but not flexible to churches. The later will be more complicate on server setup and management but flexible to churches. They can add additional package according to their need. If to go the latter way what virtualizer shall I select? OpenVZ will be easier for central management. VirtualBox is ideal for sound. Each virtualizer has its pros and cons.

Re Database which package shall I select MySQL/ProgreSQL/EnterpriseDB (now Posgres Plus). With the complete vanish of Sun in the market folks working on Open Source has different consideration on MySQL.

Re Linux OS what will be your recommendation? Ubuntu/Debian/Fedora/Arch/CentOS? In my personal opionion Ubuntu is more friendly on GUI and sound.


B.R.
satimis

[andopes]

Hi André,

Notice and announcement will use the notice board on church website as instrument for circulation. They will be posted there for a short period. Bishop won't have sufficient time to browse one hundred church websites daily. If they are circulated on email it will be simple just cc Bishop. Bishop can find a particular notice and/or announcement in case of need.


Yes, thanks. We are working on Open Source. Folks in this circle are helping each others without boundary and without reserve.

I haven't finalised whether to go "virtual hosting" way or "VM" (guests) way. The former will be easier for management on server but not flexible to churches. The later will be more complicate on server setup and management but flexible to churches. They can add additional package according to their need. If to go the latter way what virtualizer shall I select? OpenVZ will be easier for central management. VirtualBox is ideal for sound. Each virtualizer has its pros and cons.

Re Database which package shall I select MySQL/ProgreSQL/EnterpriseDB (now Posgres Plus). With the complete vanish of Sun in the market folks working on Open Source has different consideration on MySQL.

Re Linux OS what will be your recommendation? Ubuntu/Debian/Fedora/Arch/CentOS? In my personal opionion Ubuntu is more friendly on GUI and sound.


B.R.
satimis

Hi satimis

Ubuntu is a good distribution to setup SugarCRM, I had configured Sugar on a Ubuntu system sometime ago and it is pretty easy and also the Ubuntu community is one of the most active on the world.
Regarding Virtualization I can not suggest you once I have no enough knowledge.

Greetings from São Paulo