Is SugarForge Dead?

[smashingjay]

I am a SugarCRM OS user Sugar observer but the question I have is whether or not the SugarForge is dead or dying.

Looking for modules for sales and marketing as well as document merge (OS user that doesn't us MS Word--not OS) I am shocked and a disappointed at the seemingly empty coffers in the SugarForge of new or updated Modules. Looking at the newish Sugar Exchange I am seeing more and more closed license modules being developed. Is the OS community turning to profits. If so that is fine I hardly contribute more than ideas to OS projects but lets call a spade a spade.

If the Sugar OS dev community is truly a active we should be seeing more and more modules being added to the Forge all the time but all I see are planned projects (who cares--vapour ware) and great modules that worked with V3.51.

Lets pull the weeds and rally behind those who build modules. How about a donations to devs system where the projects could stay OS but the devs could get comp'd for some of their efforts. And what happened to the glory of "I Built That!"?

Am I just a leech or are my expectations too high? From the shiny hopes of my first days with Sugar back at V3.00 to now slim pickings and outdated mods, what is a guy to do?

Advice and assaults encouraged.

[andydreisch]

Hi smashingjay, while we hope everyone heeds your advice to support and build new modules as a means to fuel the Sugar community, with more than 20 new projects added per month on average, SugarForge is ticking along quite nicely.

But there is definite room for improvement. We readily acknowledge that some projects that were created in the 3.x timeframe have fallen behind. We also acknowledge that some projects are created with some fanfare and yet never come to fruition. Nevertheless, there are some seriously cool items offered on SugarForge and more come on line all the time. We're also realistic in that some projects, well, deserve to go away. We encourage developers like you to lead the charge to create still more or "resurrect" moribund suitable pojects.

A word about SugarExchange. SugarExchange is our marketplace for finished, production-ready offerings. You have to realize that Sugar power users and admins really had nowhere to go to identify "safe" products in a comfortable setting. SugarExchange provides them with convenient, comfortable storefront environment. Many items on SugarExchange stem from SugarForge projects and several are from 3rd party ISVs. Whether a SugarForge project becomes a SugarExchange listing is entirely up to the developer. In the event a developer chooses to promote the fruits of his/her labor, that developer is assured a high-traffic venue on SugarExchange where it is possible, if they so desire, to also sell their offerings. Our stance remains that nothing on SugarForge is for sale.

Finally, we're making two moves in the next few weeks to further shore up SugarForge's value. First: we're migrating projects that currently reside on the Forums to SugarForge, where they really should be in the first place. A "one-stop shop" is the goal here. (There are also substantial network infrastructure benefits as well.) Second, we're offering a bounty program that is intended to plug gaps in community offerings, possibly rolling them into baseline code as well.

Our work is never done and while we sincerely admire the talents of the Sugar dev community we know that we can do a lot more to make SugarForge better still. For this, we thank you for your candid comments and we hope this background is useful.

Andy

[smashingjay]

Andy,

Thanks for the response. The changes and the clarification on the SugarExchange are great. I would just think that with a user base the size of Sugar that there ought to be some level of geometric expansion of the completed addons and modules but it seems to trickle at a steady pace. I am willing to pay for enhancements and addons if they are good but I just don't know what is holding back the a wave of devs building new and updating old addons.

Ahh well, I didn't pay for the software I guess I should stop complaining. Hey I have issues with software I paid for too.

Jay

[kpit]

There needs to be a clean way to take ownership of projects and allow easy projet transfer of maintainer if the maintainer drops of the face of the internet and no longer responds.

[smashingjay]

umeco,

Yes! Absolutely. In fact not only should SF be able to turn over admin powers but there should be a holding pen for dead/inactive projects. They should not be in the SF search results and not in the index visible as active.

I don't know how many projects there are in the SF with no docs, files, news, updates, or anything. The Sugar OS team should be by default, co-admin on all projects, with a clear policy that states if the owner/author leaves without removing the files or turning over the project to a new admin, the files become part of the community property (attribution should stay intact).

[andydreisch]

... The Sugar OS team should be by default, co-admin on all projects, with a clear policy that states if the owner/author leaves without removing the files or turning over the project to a new admin, the files become part of the community property (attribution should stay intact).

This is a good suggestion from the operational perspective. Thanks for it.

As to your earlier point about projects "trickling in" where you'd expect more given the size of the Sugar install base, we think this may be reflective of how difficult starting a project can be in the Sugar environment. We recognize this and are implementing steps to directly address this including: the recent establishment of the Sugar Dev-User Group and the concurrent development of a developer training program, oferred through Sugar University, targeted for a Spring '07 launch -- these are just examples.

Then there's the difficulty in staying current. Our rapid releases put a strain on a developer, we know. We also can do a far better job of alerting developers of upcoming changes to Sugar's underpinnings. We're taking steps here with the introduction of the pre-release alert mechanism in the Wiki, starting with Release 4.5.1. The Wiki itself is rather new and is a significant help as well.

Our overall goal is to make it simpler and more profitable (in every sense of the term) to be a Sugar developer and community member.

Andy

[smashingjay]

Andy,

These all seem like very good changes and I think that there is still room for clarifying things as there are so many different resources and places in the Sugar world to find particular info.

I am glad to see all addons moved out of the Forums. I absolutely hate use of forums in an OS project environment for listing and posting projects, as linear threads are not conducive to categorical information. A repository system similar to the one in the forge is better. A link to a dedicated forum for the project would be the next step. This is a great way too to ensure that the project doesn't die. Help requests and bug reports for a project could be kept all in one place and within the support forums is where this info should be as opposed to yet another location. Just put a sticky for links to the forge at the top.

The other issue I don't get is what is the vision of the OS project? Is it to develop and help develop commercial addons and projects or is it to develop the best CRM out there with the best most talented community? What I am feeling is the former when the marketing suggests the latter.

I still think that it is a great product and project.

[andydreisch]

[W]hat is the vision of the OS project? Is it to develop and help develop commercial addons and projects or is it to develop the best CRM out there with the best most talented community?

Well, not to be facetious but the answer is ... yes.

The Commercial Open Source model is founded on the principle that expertise and active involvement from a vigorous community yields better software, faster. And that this helps drive a commercial business, which in turn helps the community by ensuring the project's longevity and long-term stability. Sugar's commitment to this overall approach is reflected by we pour 80% of all new release features back into the Sugar Open Source project. The company has a VP of Community Dev.

As important it is for SugarCRM to have acquired over 900 commercial customers, it's equally important that we sustain a vibrant community to fuel product growth, to help us achieve greater commercial success, which strengthens the project, and on and on.

With that as a backdrop, it's my task to implement the types of things you suggest here in order to make the community involvement process easier, faster, and better whether the involvement is bug fixes, community contributions, design concepts, modules, etc.

And it's here that the programs we've discussed here can help us ratchet-up SugarForge to achieve even more impressive numbers than todays' 2.5M+ downloads and 300+ projects.

Andy

[smashingjay]

Andy,

I a concede to your point. I was ranting a little. I think this thread should be killed. I am just whining because I am a poor small company who likes to leech off the OS communities for productivity tools. If I was a better php programmer I would love to contribute but unfortunately, I am getting a small web development and marketing agency going and I don't have time to learn. I know Sugar will be the tool for me for quite a while and I will recommend it to others as I have in the past. Thanks for your thoughtful responses and listening to my feedback.

Back to the shadows...

Jay

[andydreisch]

Jay, please don't remain in the shadows for long! It's been a great line of questioning ... thanks for it.

You and thousands of other users, implementers, and admins consitute the most important segment of our community -- the user community.

So, good luck and chime in every so often when you get a chance.

Andy