Frustrated User (dealing with customizations)

[ravensorb]

Ok, I'll admit that I am a little new to SugarCRM. After passing on v4 and watching v5 I decided to take the plunge (v5.5.0) and give a serious look at Sugar (after spending years working with Microsoft CRM), and I have to admit that I am getting pretty frustrated. From the outside, it looks like SugarCRM is well developed and highly customizable using the web based interface -- however the reality seem to be far from that. Here are a few examples of what I am running into

- Inability to move custom drop-downs and values from development to staging to production (cannot find a way to export)
- There is a backup from the web based interface, but no restore (and the backup does not take care of the data in the database)
- Shortcuts are not configurable/editable via web interface (seriously -- I need to edit every Menu.php file by hand???)
- No ability to sync display vs. edit panels (I have to create each from scratch for custom entities??)
- Setting this up on a windows box, while it works is a nightmare and there are so many bugs that it seems to be pointless (simple configurations changes via web based interface will not work, custom relationships cannot be created)
- Reports cannot changed to use custom entities (this might be available in the commercial version, but it would be nice if I could create canned reports based on custom entities at the very least)

Basically it seems to be that if I want to use SugarCRM straight out of the box it is great, if I want to do serious customizations in PHP then the sky is the limit, however if I want do some basic customizations via the web to use SugarCRM to manage something other than sales pipelines (this animal rescue or volunteer organizations) well then I am out of luck which is really a shame.

Some features that I think would really make an impact are
- Combine module builder and studio into a single concept (really they are pretty much the same thing already) and allow for packaging up any number of entities to be exported
- Allow down downs and their values to be exported (this actually should automatically be included in any module package the uses them)
- Ability to update/configure shortcuts via the web
- Simple way to bundle all changes up into a single package and then simple way to import it (data included) into a production environment -- critical from even basic DR or quick build scenarios
- Backup application (including data - with encryption) and provide download link
- Ability to create edit view from detail view (or better yet, create/reset a view from any existing view)
- Ability to create custom home pages and set as default (via web interface)

Now, like I said, I am still new with SugarCRM so if I am mistaken and some (or many) of the items I have listed above are possible today, then please accept my apologies and point me in the direction of where I can learn more -- as I said, SugarCRM seems to be a well thought out product, it just feels like there are a bunch of things missing to the core that would be well worth implementing before building out other functionality.

[ptemplin7]

Well Let take a stab at a few of these. You probably need to read some more of the devlopers website and get a better feel fro how things work.

see http://developers.sugarcrm.com the tutorials and wiki in its various forms.

Some comments:

- Inability to move custom drop-downs and values from development to staging to production (cannot find a way to export)
--> Yep, but you can move the drop down into the custom drop down list by cutting and pasting it (hint /custom/include/language/en_us.lang.php) and then add the field. The extended studio and some other tools may help but I prefer to move directly.

- There is a backup from the web based interface, but no restore (and the backup does not take care of the data in the database)
--> Thats because Sugar can be used with many different DB's, there are access issues, and all kind of other details. Frankly as a System Admin why should I depnd on the program to backup my system, it nice but really it should be the system taking care of it. The restore is actually easy. Simply unzip the files into the web directory. Restore the DB and you are done.

- Shortcuts are not configurable/editable via web interface (seriously -- I need to edit every Menu.php file by hand???)
Well if you inderstood the custom directory better, this should be able to be handled there. I'll leave it to the more experienced to point you to the right place and file.

- Simple way to bundle all changes up into a single package and then simple way to import it (data included) into a production environment -- critical from even basic DR or quick build scenarios
--> Its there you already. Also you could easily script this. Since all the customizations are done in the custom directory that's all you need. Along with making sure to rebuild relationships, cache, etc... afterwards to get the DB synced.

- Setting this up on a windows box, while it works is a nightmare and there are so many bugs that it seems to be pointless (simple configurations changes via web based interface will not work, custom relationships cannot be created)
- Reports cannot changed to use custom entities (this might be available in the commercial version, but it would be nice if I could create canned reports based on custom entities at the very least)
--> Well it is free! Also, why are you using Windows, a Linux stack doesn't require much in the way of a machine and work great. You can use another open source package like Clear or Trixbox or ... if you want to have things set up and talking to a Windows server.

- Combine module builder and studio into a single concept (really they are pretty much the same thing already) and allow for packaging up any number of entities to be exported
--> Maybe but actually they are something different! The Mod builder allows you to build for deployment ot other machines. Studio edits only on that machine. Eventually they may be combined, but remember since this is open source, both came about because different people developed them for the community. It takes a lot of programming and time to merge different code. There are plenty of other things to fix first IMHO.

--> As for the rest, feel free to ask, my guess is you will get plenty of responses! See my attached shell script I use to backup Sugar! Make sure the rest are feature requests. have you checked Sourceforge/Sugarforge for any of this stuff?

From someone who has been working with Sugar for the last three years there is still a lot I don't know and keep finding out! Do check out the developers site and Wiki, I think you will find lots of good stuff!

Paris

[ravensorb]

Paris,

First let me say -- thanks for the response (and for the backup script! I really appreciate it), you have some great points and I certainly see where you are coming from. I guess part of the reason I am pointing out some of the issues in my original post is because I am trying to look at things from someone who is not familiar with or not interested in working with a shell and php code. Most of your thoughts below point to needing access to a shell and an editor so that things can be moved around (something I would not like to do if I provide hosting for SugarCRM). Consider a cloud type installation where direct access to a shell is not always an option and then a lot of my points might make a little more sense.

Also, one thing I was thinking regarding the backup/restore -- while true SugarCRM can support multiple databases (although to be honest I have only been able to get it to working completely under MySql), there is nothing that would prevent the data being backed up to something like an XML format which would be independent of any storage back-end and easy to import to any new system. This would probably make the creation of a single deployment package even easier to create (along with providing the ability to pre-populate a new system/model/package on restore).

As for why windows -- some people find it easier to use. IIS and MSSQL have some very nice management tools that are very powerful. that said my point was more about the fact that while SugarCRM claims to support the Windows stack, no one that I know has ever been able to get it to work well enough to consider putting it in production -- my guess is that it may require rather extensive knowledge of SugarCRM to get it working on the windows stack.

[ptemplin7]

I understand, I've played around the edges with a windows install but never really worked with it so can't comment about whether I've gotten it to work.

A complete gui would be nice but also requires lots of work and with the variations in how people put things together It would seem to present issues. Ultimately I would like to see Sugar get the calendar and email to work half way decently before some other things.

Check out the bugs.sugarcrm.com and see if this stuff is int he feature request bin. If not add it! That way it can get on the road map!

Good luck,
Paris

[ptemplin7]

Take a look at this add on to address your backup needs and several other things...

http://www.sugarforge.org/frs/?group_id=583

Clink on the version 5.0-55 to see what you get!

Thanks Paris