Remove users

[Spy123]

hey ,

any idea how to removeusers totally from Sugar CRM ??

[miles932]

To my knowledge there is no way to do this. Just set them to inactive and try not to notice them

I've never seen an official explanation why (i'm still new here though), but does anyone have a good description as to the reason for this? My guess is that the way sugar reads things in the database, deleting users would break some sort of essential links in the system. However, I don't know the real answer. Anyone?

Edit: I'm new, should have searched the forums better, as there is a big thread about it:
http://www.sugarcrm.com/forums/showp...1&postcount=24

In short, I was correct in my assumption. Good luck.

[Kalendrinn]

No offense, but that's retarded. It's an excuse not to do the work required to delete the user properly from the system. I understand some businesses need to 'terminate' and retain records of users, etc, but there should be a full fledge option to delete as well. Otherwise the data will just grow and grow. Plus, I don't personally feel like sorting through tons of records of 'terminated' employees just to find someone I'm looking for.

If absolutely nothing else, offer an option in the employees/users management to hide 'terminated' people.

[susiewilliams]

Hi all,

The general reason why you want/need to keep around records of deleted/terminated employees is for auditing purposes. Think of it from a business standpoint... you want to know which of your employees has worked with each of your accounts. You want to know which accounts "Joe, the guy we fired who made all those promises he couldn't keep" was working with, so you can contact all his customers and figure out if there are any potential landmines. As a sales rep, you want to know who has worked on an opportunity if you inherited it from someone else, even if that person is no longer around.

The general focus for this (and most other) CRM system is on the opportunities and the accounts. You're tracking what sales activities happen from the opportunities' point of view. Knowing the history of your company's interactions with your customers, regardless of whether those employees are here are not, is key. And, as your company grows and you're subject to more stringent auditing regulations, preserving that history is mandatory.

Just my opinion (from doing a lot of implementations)...

[rogersugarsugar]

If you search for "delete user" you will come across an old thread on the subject, that extends to 5 pages, and over several versions of the product. It sounds like the option used to be available, but I'm not sure.

From the standpoint expressed by SugarCRM here and elsewhere, there is valid reason to keep keep things around. However, that does not reflect the way everyone does business, and there are valid reasons for being able to delete users - simple example would be all the test users that someone creates when just learning the system, before populating it with real users.

The biggest reason for not allowing it, it seems, is that it may screw up some relationships with other data. In the database world, this is handled by not deleting the record until all relationships have been severed first. This could be by deleting the other records relating to the user, or reassigning them. This is standard database practice, and I am dumbfounded as to why the option to do stuff like this is not available in a product like SugarCRM.

IMHO, it's bad enough that you sometimes have to change the way you do business to use a product such as this, but it's worse when they kill functionality to protect you from yourself.

I am curious - if you export data from SugarCRM, is it removed from the database? What about if you archive it? There really needs to be a way to keep things cleaned up (from the individual admin's perspective).

I'm disappointed that I can't afford to take a bit of time to whip up my own CRM. I have enough knowledge of databases and the web interface to make it work, but I don't have the opportunity to take time away from other projects. Of course, it would help if I could add a database expert and web app expert to my team - lots of synergy there that would speed up the process. My aim would be for simplicity first, functionality second, and customizability third. I really don't think a CRM for everyone needs to be this complicated and, from what I'm still experiencing, buggy.

Anyway, just my opinion. Perhaps it will change the more I get into things. In practical terms, it's more likely that I'll be able to devote time to customize SugarCRM than to creating something from scratch, even if the rest of the world can shape it to their needs.

[Angel]

[QUOTE=rogersugarsugar]I really don't think a CRM for everyone needs to be this complicated and, from what I'm still experiencing, buggy.
QUOTE]

This isn't specifically targeted at you, but I'd be curious to hear your opinion on it.

What exactly makes it buggy?

I am just curious, mostly because I deal with a variety of CRM packages, and have for some time, and it seems like there is always a subset of users that describe each of those products as "buggy." I am always curious to hear what exactly quantifies that statement.

Is it a specific module that is buggy? The entire app? In what way?

For a long time, I dealt with what is arguably one of the most complicated (and technically convoluted) pieces of CRM software out there today and one thing I found was that while it is true that there are always (as with any other piece of software), many issues could also be explained by one of two things: data or environment.

I am not looking to start a flame war here. I am genuinely curious as to how you (or others) quantify the "buggy" comment. I guess I should add that another part of my reasoning is that it seems unfair to me to label the app as a whole as buggy if your gripe is with one specific area.

[rogersugarsugar]

[QUOTE=Angel]

I really don't think a CRM for everyone needs to be this complicated and, from what I'm still experiencing, buggy.
QUOTE]

This isn't specifically targeted at you, but I'd be curious to hear your opinion on it.

What exactly makes it buggy?

Is it a specific module that is buggy? The entire app? In what way?

For a long time, I dealt with what is arguably one of the most complicated (and technically convoluted) pieces of CRM software out there today and one thing I found was that while it is true that there are always (as with any other piece of software), many issues could also be explained by one of two things: data or environment.

It is buggy in the sense that things either don't work as advertised, or don't work as expected. I installed the latest Bitrock, including the supplied versions of mysql, apache, and php. (I previously tried and rejected the appliance, as there wasn't enough of a server there to call it a server, and I couldn't even print from the application.)

None of my problems are related to data.

Some may be related to environment - I found that php-imap was missing, but adding it only stopped the error, not the problem of monitored email not working. Since the mail server logs show that the wrong password is being passed, I'd have to call that a bug due to the app not working as advertised.

Not being able to delete a record would be a bug due to the app not working as expected - the administrator should have the power to limit what the users can do with the data, not the app.

I have lots of single records showing up as duplicates when they are displayed in a list - be careful, though, delete one and you delete them both!

Our sales guy is complaining that the calendar notifications won't work for him. They have worked for me and the boss, but I haven't been able to verify that this is genuine, yet - it could be that he just isn't setting them up right.

Those are the major ones right now - apart from them, I'm just trying to get everyone set up to use the app and establish a workflow that SugarCRM will allow and that we can work with. It should be the other way around - SugarCRM should adapt (better, IMHO) to the way we work. (The largest shipping company in the world changed the way it did business when it acquired SAP software, because it was easier and cheaper than customizing the software to the way they did business - that's just wrong!)

I really worry about doing any upgrades to this install, for fear that something else will break. Frankly, I wonder what will happen if we get a new server, OS, etc. and try to move the data. I shouldn't be scared to do this. I'm only using the OS version until we get a better handle on things, but I've also seen lots of issues from those using the paid for services.

My boss is a friend whom I'm doing favors for, in part, by setting this up. I also have my own software services company. I assure you that the number of genuine bugs reported and/or found is in the single digits (both internally and by clients). My clients occassionally have suggestions for improvement, often have a few questions when first starting to use the service, but almost never have any negative feedback or bug reports (and the few mentioned that we've gotten were fixed within hours!). This is sophisticated software, including email, web, and database, just like with SugarCRM. We have gone into the system several times to do a lot of pruning to simplify the system. I think SugarCRM should be more like that.

Having raked SugarCRM over the coals, it doesn't mean I'm going to give up on them. I first tried it and ...... over 18 months ago (and wasn't satisfied with either for my company's use), and I've noticed enough improvements to implement it for my friend's company. I'm still a bit leary for my own company's use, though, but I'll definitely have to figure something out, even if it's a manual system!

My suggestions for improvement? Start with a serious bug hunt. If it's not working for someone, then IMHO, it's a bug and needs to be fixed - that's either by simplifying so it works on more (stock or "stockish") systems, or by supplying what's needed in the package. Next, make sure all database functionality (i.e. deletes) and relationship checking (i.e. deletes) are in place - the app should only be an interface to the DBMS and handle the workflow, not limit what can be done (unless by the administrator). Then, provide a more complete (and simplified!) customization methods. I would do this by having basic, core functionality, with lots of add on modules (again, just the basics), and lots of contribs for more commonly used things. I concede that most users of CRM will want a lot of what SugarCRM provides, but I know that my company, and the one I'm setting this up for, could easily do without (completely, not just hidden) certain modules. And for the ones that are there, it should be easier to customize (adding or deleting, not just hiding), and being able to add something more sophisticated than a new field (i.e. a calculated field based on relationships with sub records).

Anyway, I think I should stop, now. I'm almost worked up enough to retire and work on my own CRM (as described) as a challenge. Although what I need it for is not as complicated as what others need it for, I don't think it needs to be as complicated as SugarCRM to do it for me or anyone else! Would someone else like the soapbox, now? :-)

[Angel]

I get what you are saying. Below are some additionals thoughts on my part..

It is buggy in the sense that things either don't work as advertised, or don't work as expected. I installed the latest Bitrock, including the supplied versions of mysql, apache, and php. (I previously tried and rejected the appliance, as there wasn't enough of a server there to call it a server, and I couldn't even print from the application.)

I really don't like the Bitrock installer. For whatever reason, it seems to cause more problems than it solves. In fairness, that's purely anecdotal commentary on my part, but in any case, I prefer using the Apachefriends stack XAMPP instead. It works great for Sugar and the only time I had problems with it was on a Vista machine, running a French version of Vista. I don't know for sure, but my suspicion is that it was something about the system, not the stack, as I've used the same one on countless other machines without problems.

In any case, I do think there is a valid criticism here. If the Bitrock installer is to be the one that will be semi-endorsed by Sugar, more emphasis should be placed on ensuring the reports of odd behavior are addressed. The same is true for the rPath installer.

I refuse to use either because I have no idea what sorts of problems I'd be getting myself into.

In fairness to Sugar though, these issues aren't related to their code per se, but it does give a bad first impression.

None of my problems are related to data.

If I had a nickel......

Some may be related to environment - I found that php-imap was missing, but adding it only stopped the error, not the problem of monitored email not working. Since the mail server logs show that the wrong password is being passed, I'd have to call that a bug due to the app not working as advertised.

Other people are able to use the e-mail module successfully, including myself (although I don't really like the whole web based e-mail paradigm). Were it a bug, it wouldn't work for anyone. I would concurr that troubleshooting problems related to it isn't an easy task, and in some regards, neither is the initial configuration. Hopefully the 5.0 release will make it easier.

Not being able to delete a record would be a bug due to the app not working as expected - the administrator should have the power to limit what the users can do with the data, not the app.

I am assuming this is in reference to the User record matter that started this thread. I am not sure I would agree and I would add, it is not uncommon. The same is true in MS CRM. And, no, I wouldn't agree that because vendor X does it, it in turn justifies that vendor Y does it too. However, Susie pointed out some valid business reasons for the current behavior, and to your previous point that it is buggy because it doesn't work as advertised in some areas, it is also true that it was never advertised that you could delete users, hence, it was never a feature that was supposed to be there in any capacity.

I have lots of single records showing up as duplicates when they are displayed in a list - be careful, though, delete one and you delete them both!

Are you referring to contact records? If so, are they linked to more than one account? If so, this has been confirmed as a bug, but I am not sure when it will be fixed.

Our sales guy is complaining that the calendar notifications won't work for him. They have worked for me and the boss, but I haven't been able to verify that this is genuine, yet - it could be that he just isn't setting them up right.

There is no reason why it would work for one user, but not another, unless that user does not have notifications enabled in their preferences. It could also be something such as spam rules not allowing the e-mail to come in to the inbox. In either case, I haven't seen or know of any bug in Sugar that would prevent this functionality from working.

Those are the major ones right now - apart from them, I'm just trying to get everyone set up to use the app and establish a workflow that SugarCRM will allow and that we can work with. It should be the other way around - SugarCRM should adapt (better, IMHO) to the way we work. (The largest shipping company in the world changed the way it did business when it acquired SAP software, because it was easier and cheaper than customizing the software to the way they did business - that's just wrong!)

I am definitely with you on that point. I had a similar experience at a prior job with a new phone system that was way too rigid for the existing workflow.

I suspect the 5.0 UI enhancements will help in a number of areas, but that remains to be seen.

I really worry about doing any upgrades to this install, for fear that something else will break. Frankly, I wonder what will happen if we get a new server, OS, etc. and try to move the data. I shouldn't be scared to do this. I'm only using the OS version until we get a better handle on things, but I've also seen lots of issues from those using the paid for services.

Well, just my two cents, but I do think you have to take things with a grain of salt. After all, this forum is dedicated primarily for the purpose of gathering questions on problems user may encounter. As a result, it will contain a lot of messages along those lines. Sometimes the messages are duplicates of other threads, sometimes they are new topics, in either case, the fact that there are X number of messages in the Help forum isn't necessarily indicative of the quality of the product. It certainly is a gauge that can be used, but you have to keep in mind that there is more to it than what is on the surface.

I think SugarCRM should be more like that.

Ideally, that would be great, but I can understand why it is a big challenge for Sugar. The place I worked at before produced software with over one million users. Large segments of different users would regularly request changes that were at odds with that of other users. It is a difficult balance to manage and on top of that, to test for, because you have such varied usage, environments, etc. And that was all within a Windows world.

I can only imagine how big of a challenge it is for Sugar. Trying to server a breadth of users in a lot of different industries with different functionality requirements and keeping things simple is not as easy as it sounds.

Having raked SugarCRM over the coals, it doesn't mean I'm going to give up on them. I first tried it and ...... over 18 months ago (and wasn't satisfied with either for my company's use), and I've noticed enough improvements to implement it for my friend's company. I'm still a bit leary for my own company's use, though, but I'll definitely have to figure something out, even if it's a manual system!

Perhaps this is premature, but if you are looking for something simple, you might want to try using Highrise (www.highrisehq.com). It doesn't have all the functionality of a lot of the CRM packages out there today (including Sugar), but it is very easy to use.

My suggestions for improvement? Start with a serious bug hunt. If it's not working for someone, then IMHO, it's a bug and needs to be fixed - that's either by simplifying so it works on more (stock or "stockish") systems, or by supplying what's needed in the package.

Ditto on the first point. As for the the not working part, I would agree with your point on simplifying it whenever possible, which they have done in some areas over time. I also think it would be nice to have more documentation. The Wiki is a great resource, but really needs an editor. A lot of great knowledge there, but not always expressed in a manner that is easily understood. Secondly, a searchable knowledgebase would go a long way. Searching a forum is not the same.

Although what I need it for is not as complicated as what others need it for, I don't think it needs to be as complicated as SugarCRM to do it for me or anyone else! Would someone else like the soapbox, now? :-)

You should give Highrise a serious look. Based on your comments, I suspect it will meet your needs better.

[ivolator]

hey ,

any idea how to removeusers totally from Sugar CRM ??

OMG
I got a headache by the time I finished the end of this post (jsut kidding). Good points though.

Let's go directly to answering your question.

For now the easiest way would be to override mark_deleted($id) function in User.php.
Instead of having it do UPDATE statement jsut do DELETE

[pblag]

hey ,

any idea how to removeusers totally from Sugar CRM ??

Hi Spy123!

We developed delete users functionality for 3 our customers so if you are interested we can provide it for you.
Feel free to contact us.