Replacement for Sugar CRM

[rowebots]

I need some help getting a new crm system that has the following properties:

a) Can be confIgured in less than a few hundred hours.

b) Is not full of bugs.

c) Actually has a manual that explains how to configure the system.

d) Has an overall cost when considered with the learning curve and bug removal that is less than the cost of Sugar - somewhere less than 10K for a single user I'd guess.

Any alternatives that you can suggest? Maybe I should go back to outlook or some variant of that - at least it sort of works.

[Angel]

Someone sent me an e-mail with just the solution for you, but my Outlook crashed and I can't get to it now.

Back to pen and paper, it never crashes.

[SugarDev.net]

SugarCRM's probably your best bet.

The mistake (I'm taking a guess here), is that you're not a SugarCRM expert, and that you tried to deploy it yourself. Don't be a fool.

[rowebots]

Is there some good reason that it should not be an out of the box simple install for basic features? I really don't see one.

Is there some reason that features are randomly interdependent creating an unstable release?

With an unstable feature set and an intensionally or unintentionally complex install of course you need to be an expert. Why not just do a good design and install up front?

For example - Sugar could have diagnostics that actually test the system and tell you about problems. Isn't this superior to random operation?

Thanks for your superior help.

[doktora]

SugarCRM's probably your best bet.

The mistake (I'm taking a guess here), is that you're not a SugarCRM expert, and that you tried to deploy it yourself. Don't be a fool.

I'm with rowebots here. Expertise is not a problem -- bugs is. The e-mail module is appalling. If all you use it for is tracking contacts, maybe it works, but tracking customer cases, group e-mails, templates -- it's a hack.

Does anyone have a decent experience with a CRM that works? Our helpdesk people have to be able to process e-mails coming from a single source. I haven't found a CRM that easily supports this kind of workflow.

5.0 is a hack. Our staff just couldn't use it so we had to downgrade to 4.5.

-- disappointed

[Angel]

My normal reaction to these types of threads is frankly a humorous one.

I don't understand how either of you expect us to provide you with any realistic help.

I could easily list about 10 different CRM packages, all of which have a loyal following and could make a strong case for many business needs across a multitude of industries.

In the same token, I can also give you a list of common critiques for each of those, and I am willing to bet you'd probably latch on to one or more of those reasons almost immediately. If I wanted to, I could also give you links to similar threads from users of those applications as well.

Were I to tell you that CRM system "X" has a great e-mail client, but would cost you $1500/named user, plus it would require that you purchase MS-SQL and Exchange licenses, you would probably think twice about whether or not the "buggy" CRM system you are using today is really that "buggy." And we are only scratching the surface there, as the price point doesn't mean it doesn't have bugs. Assuming you made the switch, you might quickly find that while you are in better shape in one regard, you also introduced a system with far more problems in other areas.

Furthermore, you are already taking shots at Outlook, which would lead me to believe that regardless of the solution offered, you will tend to have some exaggerated negative perception of the solution and unrealistic expectation that it must always work perfectly.

I am not defending Sugar, every software has bugs, but generalizations such as "it is full of bugs" are just that, generalizations, and leave little room to offer you any real assistance or suggestions on products to look at, thus you shouldn't expect any.

If you want a bullet proof system, use pen and paper, as I jokingly mentioned in my initial post.

[doktora]

No one is generalizing, the shortcomings are very quantifiable, here are just a few (no one bothered to comment on them):

http://www.sugarcrm.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31352

My specific negativity is towards the fact that a major release works worse than the previous version. This speaks volumes of the development process behind a software.

[DragonflyMaster]

I agree with Angel.

I know how frustrating can be trying to tailor SugarCRM, because when I started using it, I got pissed a million times (and it still happens sometimes).

Many times I wished there was a better manual and less bugs, but if I consider the costs, I say it's fine: I develop on Sugar 5 Community Edition, the only cost I have is my time (mostly my spare time, because my job is not just Sugar).

rowebots talks about no simple install for basic features and features randomly interdependent... I'd suggest to look at the CRM and how it works before speaking.
Doktora says "5.0 is a hack. Our staff just couldn't use it so we had to downgrade to 4.5"
I say 5.0 is a bet Sugar is going to win. Of course, coding HTML is a lot easier than using MVC and a template engine like Smarty, but it has a more limited potential.

Want to know about other CRMs? go on google and digit "CRM", good luck!
Want to stay Sugar? If you are no expert, become one or hire one.

[SugarDev.net]

Your sarcasm is really nice.

You seem to lack the basic understanding of open source projects. OS software doesn't (really) work when you just 'throw' it in your organization. It's not something that you just deploy and forget. Although Sugar may lead you to believe so, SugarCRM is not a very powerful productivity tool out-of-the-box, unless you use it for leads/opportunities. Those are the only things Sugar does *really* right.

Think of Sugar as a framework. A good start to an application that will *really* improve your business.

Please, people. Everyone. Stop thinking you're an IT analyst/programmer/application manager/interface designer. If you're a manager, get a professional to handle Sugar. It's not Windows, you know...

[SugarDev.net]

Currently, our company is doing some wonderful things with Sugar. Think of 100+ users on CE edition, or a standardized installation for a specific business type.

The MVC is also very lovely, and the logic hooks. And the 5.0 theme. We also integrate it with TRAC (programmers see TRAC, support staff sees SugarCRM). The program is really becoming something resembling Production (or: not beta). And that's a lot for a OS project (most of them never leave beta stage).

Now, Sugar is 0% guaranteed to work. And SugarCRM is a company stuck between 2 ideologies: Open Source and Selling Licenses. They release stuff far too soon, they don't let us customizers do very much with it (look at Drupal's system, for example, to see a far better customizable, extensible system), they don't fix bugs (I've submitted bugs over a year ago that are still on status "New", so they're untouched). They don't have a public SVN, they don't accept code like a normal open source project. And, functionally speaking: the email module is crap, the Office plugins (at least a year ago) are bad, the HRM functionality is very thin, the Agenda is lacking some basic featues, and the upgrade process and module install processes are very buggy and often break systems. On top of that, Sugar has made every single user a application designer with their Studio/Module builder. So they now have to explain 1-to-many relationships to managers who are clicking together a module. Great.