Is SugarCRM ready?

[dpuryear]

We are currently using SugarOS and are now at the stage where we need to decide if we are going to upgrade to the commercial version vs. using other commercial packages such as GoldMine or Maximizer. (I've used other packages at other times for other places.)

Here are the things that we see and have used in other CRM products and want to know if they are in the pipeline for SugarCRM:

1. Better integration with Outlook. If I'm in most other CRM systems and I send an email from Outlook, the email will be automatically attached to the CRM contact via an Outlook add-on. You don't have to pick and choose which email to attach, which is always a bad idea since you always seem to want the email you didn't attach. Plus, attaching emails in your Sent mailbox is a pain, and THOSE are often the critical emails.

2. Faster UI. While I like the theory of having a web-based CRM, it's just slow compared to a fat client on your desktop. Are there any plans for a faster UI? The offline client appears to be just a local version of the web-based SugarCRM, which doesn't solve this issue. (Also, there is no demo of the offline client, even though it's mentioned on the demo/flash page.)

3. Better reports and data filing. If I'm in ACT, GoldMine, whatever, I can say "Who have I not called in the past 31 days?" I can't do that easily in Sugar. Also, unless I have scheduled a call, SugarCRM doesn't even seem to record whether it's a call or note, etc. So you can't really do an effective report on that for follow-up. It could be argued (and has by SugarCRM techs on this forum) that this type of data doesn't need to be stored, but I have yet to find a situation where it's not extremely helpful in customer management and where you want this automated and not a manual process.

4. Access to third-party tools for quoting, etc. There is a huge market for add-ons to other CRM products. While SugarForge is great, the level of business-ready add-ons seems limited. There are a lot of betas. Does SugarCRM have anything in the works on this front?

We've already invested in Sugar and are looking to stick with it, but we are at a point in our growth where these limitations are affecting us. I'm hoping that SugarCRM will say "This is all resolved in 4.x.x!"

[Angel]

Just a couple of points regarding your questions/concerns..

1. Better is relative. If you take a look at the Outlook link for GoldMine, it doesn't have the ability to sync contacts or calendar items, although in fairness, there are other ways to do it. Point is, to some, the fact that the Sugar Outlook plug-in does do those things might make it better over others. That being said, I tend to agree with you that it would be nice to have the ability to automatically sync messages, but it must be a user preference. Ironically, most folks I've talked to tend to complain about the reverse situation than what you are describing, i.e. auto sync syncs too many messages into their CRM system, as it would include all the messages such as "check out this video of Bill Mahrer mocking iPhone users..." and the like. In any case, if you would like to see a "better" Outlook add-in, you should describe in detail what it is you think would make it better, as what it is better for you may not be better for 80% of the rest of the community and vice-versa.

2. It is a web app. That alone inhibits its ability to behave exactly like a desktop app would. I tend to agree with what others in the tech industry have been saying for a while, in that eventually things will be a mix of both experiences. Until such time, it is what it is, each platform has its pros/cons and you need to determine which fits best into your needs. For example, if you need web access, Sugar is ready for that out-of-box, GoldMine isn't.

3. The reporting issue analysis seems a bit skewed to me. I have very intimate knowledge of the GoldMine reporting engine and I can tell you that reporting on that type of data is not in easier in GoldMine than it is Sugar. GoldMine is not good at identifying the absence of data such as history. You have to use an SQL query to get at that, which is about the same way that you'd accomplish the same task in Sugar. I don't see how one would be better than the other in that regard.

As for the issue of logging items, I don't quite understand why you don't just add a new entry in the History section while viewing the details of a contact/account. You are not required to schedule the item first, much like you are not required to do so in GoldMine either.

4. True, there aren't as many options available as there are for other CRM systems, but in fairness, GoldMine and Maximizer, are both applications that have been around for over 15 years. Thus, it is natural that they would have a stronger following in the third party arena. Sugar is only about 4 years old or so. Give it some time and you'll see a similar effect with Sugar too.

[dpuryear]

>> 1. Better is relative. If you take a look at the Outlook link for GoldMine, it doesn't have the ability to sync contacts or calendar items, although in fairness, there are other ways to do it. Point is, to some, the fact that the Sugar Outlook plug-in does do those things might make it better over others. That being said, I tend to agree with you that it would be nice to have the ability to automatically sync messages, but it must be a user preference. Ironically, most folks I've talked to tend to complain about the reverse situation than what you are describing, i.e. auto sync syncs too many messages into their CRM system, as it would include all the messages such as "check out this video of Bill Mahrer mocking iPhone users..." and the like. In any case, if you would like to see a "better" Outlook add-in, you should describe in detail what it is you think would make it better, as what it is better for you may not be better for 80% of the rest of the community and vice-versa.

I'm glad you agree then. Yes, it should be a user preference. But if there is no "preference", then the default that I've seen work best is more to track all the email. I don't think I've come across a site where they would prefer manual over automated to be honest.

>> 2. It is a web app. That alone inhibits its ability to behave exactly like a desktop app would. I tend to agree with what others in the tech industry have been saying for a while, in that eventually things will be a mix of both experiences. Until such time, it is what it is, each platform has its pros/cons and you need to determine which fits best into your needs. For example, if you need web access, Sugar is ready for that out-of-box, GoldMine isn't.

Yes, the "it is what it is" isn't a good road-map. My comments were "Will SugarCRM" offer a faster UI? So the answer is no.

>> 3. The reporting issue analysis seems a bit skewed to me. I have very intimate knowledge of the GoldMine reporting engine and I can tell you that reporting on that type of data is not in easier in GoldMine than it is Sugar. GoldMine is not good at identifying the absence of data such as history. You have to use an SQL query to get at that, which is about the same way that you'd accomplish the same task in Sugar. I don't see how one would be better than the other in that regard.

Wait. I think you misunderstood. If I log a call in GM or ACT or whatever, I can say "Show me the last time I called this person." The real difference here is that GM/ACT/etc have an easy way to quickly log an ad hoc "I just made it but it wasn't scheduled" call record, while SugarCRM only really offers a Note for that. Thus, you lose the ability to report on it.

I remember I commented on the inability to accurately track an impromptu call or meeting in SugarCRM before, but was told by SugarCRM people that this isn't needed. Yet, every other CRM system I've seen does it and I see it used often. I really think this feature is needed so that there is more meaning to the data. Fact is, quite a few calls are made off-the-cuff and not scheduled. And this isn't a sales process issue. This is a "SugarCRM should help automated your sales process, not require manual effort" issue. That's my humble opinion at least.

I'm hoping to see this resolved soon.

>> As for the issue of logging items, I don't quite understand why you don't just add a new entry in the History section while viewing the details of a contact/account. You are not required to schedule the item first, much like you are not required to do so in GoldMine either.

Sure, I can add a history NOTE. But if you have icons for a Note, why not go ahead and make a Create Call Log or Create Meeting Log as well and assign the right call/meeting attributes? That way the data in your database has more context.

>> 4. True, there aren't as many options available as there are for other CRM systems, but in fairness, GoldMine and Maximizer, are both applications that have been around for over 15 years. Thus, it is natural that they would have a stronger following in the third party arena. Sugar is only about 4 years old or so. Give it some time and you'll see a similar effect with Sugar too.

I'm sure you are right. I'm just curious if Sugar has any knowledge that it hasn't release yet that we should know about. Or is there a published partnership strategy? Not "partners come to us", but more information about how Sugar is pushing to gain more software partners that are already established in the CRM market.

[Angel]

Yes, the "it is what it is" isn't a good road-map. My comments were "Will SugarCRM" offer a faster UI? So the answer is no.

My main point is that they can only do so much, not that they aren't doing anything or that "it is what is" is their roadmap, and to expand on my comments, they have been making the UI faster over the history of the product. Take a look at 4.0 and then compare it to 5.0 and you'll see a big performance difference.

Anyway, roadmaps are a tricky thing. A lot of users have been complaining about the limitations of the calendar for quite a while. Addressing that problem is a big undertaking and I personally think that's a better expenditure of dev time at this point in time.

Wait. I think you misunderstood. If I log a call in GM or ACT or whatever, I can say "Show me the last time I called this person." The real difference here is that GM/ACT/etc have an easy way to quickly log an ad hoc "I just made it but it wasn't scheduled" call record, while SugarCRM only really offers a Note for that. Thus, you lose the ability to report on it.

This is quite a bit different than your original comment of "Who have I not called in the past 31 days?" One is looking for a specific item (the last one) and your original situation is looking for the absence of data within a given time period. Quite different.

Showing the last time an individual was contacted is much easier to attain, even then, it is still easier to do it via an SQL query in GM than within the report engine, so they are still about the same in that regard.

I remember I commented on the inability to accurately track an impromptu call or meeting in SugarCRM before, but was told by SugarCRM people that this isn't needed. Yet, every other CRM system I've seen does it and I see it used often. I really think this feature is needed so that there is more meaning to the data. Fact is, quite a few calls are made off-the-cuff and not scheduled. And this isn't a sales process issue. This is a "SugarCRM should help automated your sales process, not require manual effort" issue. That's my humble opinion at least.

I'm hoping to see this resolved soon.

Sure, I can add a history NOTE. But if you have icons for a Note, why not go ahead and make a Create Call Log or Create Meeting Log as well and assign the right call/meeting attributes? That way the data in your database has more context.

Not sure why they would have told you it is not needed. That seems a bit bizarre to me, but I don't know the full story, so there might be other factors involved that I am unaware of that would have led someone to tell you that.

It seems to me that you could easily add it by clicking the Schedule Meeting button and setting the Status to "Held" and that would address your need, unless I am misunderstanding what you are trying to accomplish. If you want the icons in the History section, adding them via some customization work shouldn't be that difficult of a task.

I'm sure you are right. I'm just curious if Sugar has any knowledge that it hasn't release yet that we should know about. Or is there a published partnership strategy? Not "partners come to us", but more information about how Sugar is pushing to gain more software partners that are already established in the CRM market.

Well, I do know that they are regularly getting the name out there, which is a big part of attracting people (resellers and technology partners). So I know they are not just sitting back and waiting for people to come to them.

If you want details on the partner programs, check out this page: http://www.sugarcrm.com/crm/partners...-programs.html

or better yet, give them a call so they can tell you all the finer details of what their strategies are.